Rebody Roof and Windscreen issue

[Dave in Southampton]

Hello
I'm trying to build a SWB GTO Tribute kit on my 1999 2.8 Auto Z3.
The first parts of the kit I fitted I fitted were the parcel shelf and the boot extension.
I 've arrived at the point where I'm fixing the rear body and I have an issue with the roof and the windscreen.
The roof fits beautifully but it covers the windscreen seal and I can't see how once fitted, the windscreen could ever be replaced.
Chris at Tribute insists that the panel needs to push down at the back and this will draw the roof back.
The panel fits at the door shut and it can't go down or back at that point.

Has anybody else had this issue?

Regards

Dave

 

[Duncodin]

Maybe it needs to move back just a fraction and see-saw backwards a bit just to clear the windscreen surround.

Take a look through the rebody section to see others who have a coupe roof.

Make a new post showing pictures but also include a name or two of members you think might be able to help based on what they've built. Prefix the name with the @ character and they'll be notified and more likely to see your question.

 

[Dave in Southampton]

Hi

I'll take another look. The rebody threads I have seen are convertibles.

Please see picture.

The body panel needs to go back 12mm

 

[Duncodin]

Hi

I'll take another look. The rebody threads I have seen are convertibles.

Please see picture.

The body panel needs to go back 12mm

Rebody - Mittaws 250 SWB Coupe Build

In theory it is waterproof but it cracks very easy - stone chips etc - and moisture gets into the cracks and freezes and cracks get worse. Underside needs stonechip protection. Are you planning on painting the whole of the exterior of front end with stonechip?

zroadster.org

 

[Duncodin]

Your picture. The roof line is way to far forward.

Ignore the back for a moment. Concentrate on the front roof line. Get that lined up. Now go look at the back. Show us what the back looks like over door B pillar.

 

[Pond]

Your picture. The roof line is way to far forward.

Looks about the same as in @mittaw s pictures which you linked before he cut it all back.
Seems to me that Tribute can't make a decent fitting kit. Not good IMO, especially as ALL Z3s are the same dimensions.

I was looking at the roof on mine earlier (still has the Z3 convertible top) and it would have made sense to me for them to have moulded the roof to sit in the channel that holds the soft top, then bonded in. That would give a flush roof line for the GRP to windscreen surround.

Even if the OP can get it to sit behind the windscreen surround, it is going to sit proud, which will look like a dog's dinner and be 'whistley'.

Or have I got it wrong?

 

[mittaw]

Hi

I'll take another look. The rebody threads I have seen are convertibles.

Please see picture.

The body panel needs to go back 12mm

100% Dave i had to cut mine back. When i lined it up it was over the window too. I pulled it back but then had conflict with the door shut too like you. I ended up ditching the peice of fibreglass that sits on top of the windsceen and bonding the roof directly to the windscreen top after roughing it up for better bond after cutting the roof back a bit.

I'm so glad i did it as the windscreen has Just cracked so need to replace it and wouldnt have been able to if i had bonded it over the screen

You need to rework the a pillar covers a little too after but I'm very pleased with the result. I set out in my thread how i cut it back. Let me know if you want anymore photos and i can post some up when I'm next at the unit.

I'm curretly still working on the roof as the panel joins leave quite an odd roof line but with some careful fibreglassing you can get a good fit. I was initially worried about the metal v fibreglass bond over the windscreen but ive had it in a cold unit over the winter and out in the sunshine in the heatwaves and its all been fine so far.

You cant quite see in this image the gap but the gap between the roofline and windscreen is as per the original car gap. The trim I'm still working on ideas but the advice ive had about using wheel arch trim works nicely and covers over any imperfections in the cutting of the roof back.

Good luck with your build and let me know if you want any images.

 

[mittaw]

Here you go @Dave in Southampton

The cut line i did. Plus i was advised to cut this section out and replace with stainless steel section and fibreglass over. There was an article in kit car magazine about it. Objective is to reduces chances of cracks between the panels

See below for final join

A pillar cover section cut back too

 

[Duncodin]

I can't believe that tribute designed it to overlap the windscreen trim. But looking at the original width of the pillar cover it looks like that is exactly what they did. Weird.

 

[Dave in Southampton]

Wow! Thank you all for your replies. It's great to know you're not alone.

Having removed the origonal overlapping windscreen seal, VW Transporter windscreen seal has filled the groove aroud the screen nicely.

In reply to Duncodin, the fit at the door pillar couldn't be better. All the srew holes line up and the panel is fast aginst the B pillar at the correct height.

Am I being stupid thinking that GRP is rigid? There might be some movement, but I think I'm going to struggle to find 12mm.
If you look at my picture, the panel fits perfectly around the corner from the roof to the A pillar. Even if the panel moves back, the part coming round to the A pillar is too wide and will still cover the seal.

Having tried the boot lid on the frame mounted hinges, It does sit too low and too far back. There is adjustment but not enough in the right direction. This does imply that the rear panel needs to go back and down. It also has more curve on it than the rear panel. That's probably another challenge.

There are lugs at the bottom of the rear panel that look like they should attach to the bottom of the inner wing at the back. They look really useful at the moment. If the back goes down, I will need to put a bracket on these, if they are going to have any function.

Chris at tribute has offered to come to me and show me how to fix it. If he's going to get any movement down at the back, I'll have to remove the boot extension and parcel shelf that I have already bonded in.

Although I'm an engineer, I have never done anything like this before. What would take an expert a day is taking me weeks of imagination, thought, and experiement. I want to get it right, but it's a good job I'm not in a hurry!

I have bought a set of "pucker" BMW Chrome windscreen trims to see if they will work better than the parts in the kit. If they don't serve a purpose, it looks like I can get my money back on Ebay.

Onwards and Upwards?

 

[mittaw]

Interested to know what vw transporter seal you used @Dave in Southampton have you a link please. Also will be interested to see how chris fixes it.

 

[Dave in Southampton]

Hi Mittaw

It was recommended and supplied by a friend of a friend who fits windscreens. This is the stuff:

VW Transporter T4 Windscreen Trim Seal - The Metal House

Replacement VW Transporter T4 Windscreen Trim Seal. Available from stock with fast UK delivery. Replace your old, perished window seal today!

themetalhouse.co.uk

The groove fits over the glass and the tail fills the gap nicely.

 

[Pond]

Although I'm an engineer, I have never done anything like this before. What would take an expert a day is taking me weeks of imagination, thought, and experiement. I want to get it right, but it's a good job I'm not in a hurry!

I was in exactly the same boat with mine. At many stages I thought I would never get anything to fit and look right.
I did have a lot of guidance from a member on here, but I managed to get mine done to a good standard (still don't know how).

You WILL get there. Guidance from people who have done it helps wonders IMO. If nothing else they can give a different perspective which helps.

 

[Duncodin]

Am I being stupid thinking that GRP is rigid? There might be some movement, but I think I'm going to struggle to find 12mm.

It can flex. It is after all plastic. If you look at Pond's build thread you can see his rear tub and side sill panels are totally out of alignment - likely caused by his kit being sat for ages resting on its sills.

Also GRP can warp as it cures especially on bigger flat surfaces.

I was wondering though if the problem with your roof is that the upward curve in the middle of the roof is sagging down under its own weight or warped during curing pushing the edges outwards. Not sure if I'm explaining well. Here's a diagram.

Assume both lines have the same starting point at the left and are the same length - the lower one, being less curved, extends further forward.

Maybe if the front could be anchored in the desired position and then some upward pressure in the middle of the roof would cause the roof to bow upwards making it all fit?

But if Chris is coming for a look-see then I'd wait for him to advise before chopping anything. But, as Mittaw has done, chopping may be the only way. If you look at my build thread you'll see I haven't been afraid to chop - often where I just fancied a slightly different shape.

 

[Dave in Southampton]

Hi All

Firstly, thank you Pond, for your support and encouragement.

In reply to Duncodin, I can see exactly what you mean. However, if I push up at the centre of the roof, isn't it difficult to make the length shorter without making the width narrower? In reply to Tribute making the kit to fit over the seal, I'm concerned. The radius on the panel fits exactly to the windscreen. It's too tight a radius for the body work.

Perhaps I will look at fitting the side windows and see what "can of worms" that opens up.

I like the idea of making the door skins removable. I hadn't thought of that. I will certainly try to make that work.

In the meantime, the NSF ABS sensor cable was less than perfect, so I decided to replace the sensor. Can I get the old one out?
I think you can all guess the answer to that!

 

[mittaw]

Theres plenty of advice on here Dave and please just ask. Ive only got as far as i have by asking on here and seeing some in the flesh. Ask away.

If chris is coming up i would definately get your window frames on to test the fit while he's there as the body gaps for the windows took a lot of working. See what he advises while there.

I did make my door skins removable at first and set out in my thread how i did it but in the end i bonded so it was all secure

Thanks for vw trim link il check out

 

[Pond]

If you look at Pond's build thread you can see his rear tub and side sill panels are totally out of alignment

And I still don't know how we (when I say 'we' I mean between me and the bodyshop) got it to all line up.
I had a 20mm height difference in my boot lid to rear clam piece at one point. I now have none, and the brackets are bonded! I reckon the GRP fairies took pity on me and went into my garage one night and sorted it all out.

 

[Pond]

It can flex. It is after all plastic.

I agree it 'can' flex but not a lot, or it will crack. In my experience over time GRP can be re-shaped a bit, but it takes a good while (months) and if you force it you will regret it.

My GRP panels had re-shaped themselves by being badly stored and left exposed to the British weather for God knows how long. Getting them back was tricky to say the least.

I certainly wouldn't get panels to 'fit' by trying to re-shape them. It could end in gelcoat (or worse) cracking down the line.

 

[Duncodin]

I agree it 'can' flex but not a lot, or it will crack. In my experience over time GRP can be re-shaped a bit, but it takes a good while (months) and if you force it you will regret it.

Of course Pond is right. It really doesn't take much to put hairline cracks into gel coat.

I wasn't suggesting pumping it up with a trolly jack. More like just supporting the weight because a big panel supported loosely on it's ends will sag a little in the middle under its own weight.